tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25560965.post2582977498347324761..comments2023-05-05T00:45:20.298-07:00Comments on Caught by the Light: The House of WindsorBr Richard Edward Helmer BSGhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04603206783767329399noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25560965.post-61993055252967292342007-01-06T15:40:00.000-08:002007-01-06T15:40:00.000-08:00Preston,
So good to hear from you! It is my unde...Preston,<br /><br />So good to hear from you! It is my understanding that Mark MacDonald did not participate in the second meeting.<br /><br />My concern remains, as it seems to me there are bishops participating who are not abiding by all provisions of the Windsor Report, either. They are supporting and abetting cross-provincial primates and bishops in Episcopal dioceses without our Presiding Bishop's or local bishops' involvement or consent. I think Fr. Jake makes this point pretty clearly.<br /><br />I'm not entirely clear what you mean by GC's parochial terms. GC is, by nature, a parochial entity, as are all governing councils at the provincial level in the Anglican Communion. <br /><br />In addition to our parochial institutions issuing responses, we remain involved with the Anglican Communion through the standard Instruments of Communion, albeit hindered by the demand that we voluntarily withdraw from the ACC, etc., at Dromantine.<br /><br />Moreover, a true listening process would involve those at the center of the controversy, namely +Gene Robinson and bishops who supported and were present at his consecration. To his credit, the ABC has met with +Robinson and others, as part of the process.<br /><br />But the "Windsor Bishops" have made it pretty clear that +Gene Robinson would not be invited to their gatherings. The involvement of Tanzania's Archbishop following the decision of Tanzania's House of Bishops pretty much shuts the door, it seems to me. <br /><br />Frankly, this all starts to look like a fait accompli to me after awhile. <br /><br />The WR calls for a process. Nobody's abiding completely with the terms.<br /><br />So a small group of bishops decide to get together anyway to meet and forward the discussion, calling themselves "Windsor-compliant." But members of the church at the center of the discussion aren't present.<br /><br />A better approach, it seems to me, would have been to have a more thorough-going and larger-based discussion spearheaded by the House of Bishops at our PB at the earliest opportunity.<br /><br />The WR may be the "only game in town." But just because it is doesn't necessarily make it a good game. <br /><br />I'm really starting to wonder who's kidding whom at this point about this process.Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07474786207149076221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25560965.post-19004090936486355192007-01-06T12:36:00.000-08:002007-01-06T12:36:00.000-08:00Hey Richard - nice to find your blog.
My understa...Hey Richard - nice to find your blog.<br /><br />My understanding is that these 'Windsor bishops' are bishops willing to engage the Windsor Report on the terms of the Report itself, which asks for certain actions to cease in order to build a space where more people can meet. Windsor set certain terms to the conversation. GC certainly did continue the conversation, but on it's own parochial terms, not on Windsor terms. As much as GC or TEC might not like the terms, it is, in the words of one theologian, the only poker game in town - there is no other communion level way forward.<br /><br />I think that +Mark McDonald adding his name to the list was very important - a man very sympathetic to LGBT issues yet willing to attempt to create this space.Prestonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06606614277818623347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25560965.post-27039152264590902782007-01-05T10:20:00.000-08:002007-01-05T10:20:00.000-08:00Marshall,
Thanks for the visit and posting your t...Marshall,<br /><br />Thanks for the visit and posting your thoughts. I indeed hope you are right. <br /> <br />My suspicions aside, there are some bishops who appear to have attended the latest Camp Allen meeting whom, while they may hold positions I disagree with, I trust as members of the "loyal opposition." <br /><br />My hope is that they will continue to participate at all levels of the conversation -- particularly in engaging with those with whom they disagree, so that The Episcopal Church may retain a high level of theological diversity in its discourse. . . and that the provinces of the Anglican Communion may witness that The Episcopal Church, while it has made some challenging decisions recently, remains welcoming to all who wish to remain at table. That, I think, is ultimately Christian and transformative.<br /><br />Perhaps, as you seem to suggest, that will also blunt some of the polemical and dismissive language that has been coming out of a few provinces as of late. <br /><br />I am especially concerned about the objectification of LGBT Christians and all the subtle and overt ways they continue to be marginalized in the current debates and conversations, particularly by Anglican bishops and archbishops. <br /><br />They are not issues. They are God's people.Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07474786207149076221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25560965.post-81089684609583284722007-01-05T09:18:00.000-08:002007-01-05T09:18:00.000-08:00I understand your questions, Richard. At the same...I understand your questions, Richard. At the same time, these gatherings seem so far to include more bishops who, while on the conservative side of moderate, have no interest in leaving The Episcopal Church. Indeed, they've outnumbered the APO crowd, and have matched the Network crowd. And, yes, we can wonder about the difference between "letter" and "proclamation" or "communique;" but I'd rather something come out from the whole group, rather than depend on Iker's or Stanton's or Duncan's statements about what was discussed.<br /><br />I think, ultimately, this group will fall apart. The majority will continue as loyal opposition in TEC, working within a long process for considering "the highest level of communion possible" for the Communion. Those who can't wait, won't. The majority might even slow the minority down for a while, but I don't expect it to be for long.<br /><br />On a side note, the <i>Kansas City Star</i> did a full page spread on "truthiness" and on news stories in 2006 that illustrated it.Marshall Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02807749717320495495noreply@blogger.com