tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25560965.post3561884442890768551..comments2023-05-05T00:45:20.298-07:00Comments on Caught by the Light: Leaning on B033Br Richard Edward Helmer BSGhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04603206783767329399noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25560965.post-33592004974424307882007-09-28T17:39:00.000-07:002007-09-28T17:39:00.000-07:00Richard,I hear what you are saying, and share your...Richard,<BR/><BR/>I hear what you are saying, and share your sadness for our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters. I would like to raise one point. Unity is not merely a principle. Unity represents individuals. We are speaking about people, when we talk about unity. I do not care for the polemic of the far-right and their obsession with a few lines of Scripture that are peripheral at best. But, I feel that I am just as obligated to those that I disagree with, as those I do. That is what makes our current situation so difficult. God's grace is the gift of all, not just those I like.<BR/><BR/>The challenge our bishops face is keeping as many individuals as possible at the table. People are slow to accept change, and we are talking about change. My prayer is that gay and lesbian persons are fully included in the Church. I am certain it will happen, and not as soon as I would like. Yet, the way we bring this about is as important as it happening. It is not about peace at any price, but being compassionate to those that just are not there now.<BR/><BR/>My bishop spoke to a group of clergy, upon her return from the meeting. She told us the story of a very well educated African women expressing her confusion about the actions of TEC. The women spoke about the inability of her culture to address these issues. She said they barely have the language to even start. She stated her view of the Anglican Communion as a family, and that the people of her land engage members of the family, when making decisions. A member of the family doesn't act without including the family.<BR/><BR/>Whether or not her perception is accurate, it is her perception. I want us to work to change perceptions. We certainly will not be able to keep everyone at the table, but if we are thoughtful, and practice compassion and patience, more will make it than otherwise.<BR/><BR/>It would also be naive to think that every gay and lesbian person can or will put up with this painstaking journey. No one could blame a gay or lesbian person for finding a faster moving tradition. But, every person that relents, right or left makes us all poorer.<BR/><BR/>This is my church, and today, I am not ready to quit.Chris+https://www.blogger.com/profile/00422418690650086178noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25560965.post-4540949673841890652007-09-26T20:15:00.000-07:002007-09-26T20:15:00.000-07:00Good thoughts, Rich. Kit's comments to which you ...Good thoughts, Rich. Kit's comments to which you linked are spot-on. This is a messy business and there's much work to be done; as followers of Christ, can we really be surprised that there's a price to be paid? <BR/><BR/>Meanwhile, as a church, how do we step in harm's way in provinces where GLBT individuals are in danger with church leaders as accomplices? Borders be damned!KJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15701224049914946896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25560965.post-29854251568707202772007-09-26T15:47:00.000-07:002007-09-26T15:47:00.000-07:00I fully understand Sheila's feelings. At the momen...I fully understand Sheila's feelings. At the moment I am sad -- sad, I suppose, that once more we glbt folks are relegated to the back of the bus. Once more we are told we are not "worthy." Once more we are told that the glass ceiling is more important than who we are as children of God.<BR/><BR/>But I will go on loving my sweet partner, loving my sweet parish, and humbly doing Christ's work in a broken world. Because there is always Easter to look forward to.Padre Waynehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14464349177761679190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25560965.post-35616412297562433232007-09-26T06:34:00.000-07:002007-09-26T06:34:00.000-07:00Sheila,Institutions can be so ugly, and too freque...Sheila,<BR/><BR/>Institutions can be so ugly, and too frequently.<BR/><BR/>My thoughts and prayers go with you. This was a painful statement for me, too, and I anticipate hard questions for our bishop when he returns home as well.<BR/><BR/>I find some comfort in recognizing that the true Church is not bounded by the institution, but by the Spirit, and the Spirit will out.<BR/><BR/>That's where our shared baptism is rooted, it seems to me.<BR/><BR/>Again, you have my prayers, and my earnest hope that you are gifted with the strength to remain with us who hunger and struggle to see the end of this longstanding ugliness in our church.Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07474786207149076221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25560965.post-35154088158123791962007-09-26T06:14:00.000-07:002007-09-26T06:14:00.000-07:00It also makes me wonder whether I should be walkin...<I>It also makes me wonder whether I should be walking to another place.</I><BR/><BR/>Sheila, I hope and pray not. We need you to stay. I need you to stay. We are all diminished if you go.June Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723016934182800437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25560965.post-75740019619001140902007-09-26T00:37:00.000-07:002007-09-26T00:37:00.000-07:00What's really getting to me, Richard, is that our ...What's really getting to me, Richard, is that our diocese just elected a new bishop who came to our parish the Sunday before his consecration--just a couple weeks ago--and told us when we greeted him that he would continue the policy of his predecessor and let priests celebrate SSBs if they needed to. He also made a big deal of supporting full inclusion for everyone, and he was applauded for it. This is why our delegates elected him.<BR/><BR/>But now (if he was at the HoB conference--I don't know for sure) he's consented to this hypocritical document, one which makes it more difficult for glbt couples to have SSBs and will make it almost impossible for Tracy Lind+ to be considered as her gifts demand in the Chicago episcopal election.<BR/><BR/>I feel that we've been had, big time. It's as if once our new bishop got his mitre, he didn't have to care about anyone else any more. I didn't hear his voice saying nay to the document. All I see are contradictions which add up to a zero sum for glbts instead of the breath of fresh air our diocese thought we were getting with his election.<BR/><BR/>It makes me wonder about the corrupting influence of institutions and how we can trust anyone when s/he reaches a certain level of "power" over others in this church. <BR/><BR/>I have seen people stopped dead in their tracks in the discernment process because they were honest and admitted they were gay, and it's devastating and ugly. The bishops just tightened the ropes.<BR/><BR/>It also makes me wonder whether I should be walking to another place. I'm finding it very hard indeed remain part of this. I was thinking this evening if I could even renew my baptismal vows, knowing that by belonging to this institution, I'm perpetuating injustice and hurt--violating my promise to help everyone fully realize his life in Christ. It's not much of a nourishing place any more.<BR/><BR/>--sheila--Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25560965.post-33530283723401974412007-09-25T20:41:00.000-07:002007-09-25T20:41:00.000-07:00Dearest Grandmére,Couldn't have posed the question...Dearest Grandmére,<BR/><BR/>Couldn't have posed the question better.<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.episcopalcafe.com/lead/the_statement.html#comment-10618" REL="nofollow">Kit Carlson over at Episcopal Café says something in one of her comments that I think illumines the situation.</A><BR/><BR/>We remain in a position very much like a family with a member who is just coming out of the closet. <BR/><BR/>Messy and contradictory reactions.<BR/><BR/>And I'm not any happier with it than you.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the reminder about the ongoing wheel of death. Might our bishops and the Archbishop of Canterbury have spent two days in prayer and conversation about how to work Christ's peace in a world at war.<BR/><BR/>Love and prayers.Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07474786207149076221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25560965.post-56674622452357087372007-09-25T20:15:00.000-07:002007-09-25T20:15:00.000-07:00Richard, I spent today in a glum mood, because the...Richard, I spent today in a glum mood, because the number of troops that have died in Iraq turned the 3800 corner and because I expected the statement that actually did come out of the HOB meeting.<BR/><BR/>They cannot have it both ways regarding our LGBT brothers and sisters.<BR/><BR/>They cannot say this:<BR/><BR/><I>We proclaim the Gospel that in Christ all God's children including gay and lesbian persons, are full and equal participants in the life of Christ's Church.</I><BR/><BR/>and this:<BR/><BR/><I>"to exercise restraint by not consenting to the consecration of any candidate to the episcopate whose manner of life presents a challenge to the wider church and will lead to further strains on communion." The House acknowledges that non-celibate gay and lesbian persons are included among those to whom B033 pertains.</I><BR/><BR/>and this:<BR/><BR/><I>We, the members of the House of Bishops, pledge not to authorize for use in our dioceses any public rites of blessing of same-sex unions until a broader consensus emerges in the Communion, or until General Convention takes further action.</I><BR/><BR/>and expect us to believe that the first statement and the two latter statements can be true at the same time.<BR/><BR/>That they probably could not have done very much more, makes it no easier to swallow.<BR/><BR/>Just as with the war in Iraq, in which only the troops and their families and friends pay a price and are asked to sacrifice, with the rest of us living our lives as usual, so too, with the HOB. What sacrifice do the bishops make, even as they ask their GLTB brothers and sisters to bear the brunt of the sacrifice?June Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723016934182800437noreply@blogger.com